The Bachelor is actually more successful than some people (haters!) give it credit for. The franchise doesn’t have a great track record, sure, but that’s partly due to the fact that people only remember the finale failures. What about Tara Durr and John Presser? They were both eliminated on the first nights of The Bachelor: Rome and The Bachelorette Season 5, respectively, but went on to get married in the real world. And what about adorable (and possibly now broken up) couple Fred Greif and Noelle Drake, who hooked up after failing to find love on The Bachelorette Season 4 and The Bachelor: London?

Here are perhaps the most well-known “success” stories of The Bachelor and The Bachelorette — married, engaged, or just dating. And, yeah, until further notice we’re including Kasey Kahl and Vienna Girardi. Why not?

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